tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post6415163072094200865..comments2022-04-29T13:22:00.817-04:00Comments on Joe the Planner: Sprawl and the r-word, a Buffalo-Niagara case studyJoe the Plannerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11577251046288232934noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-45024513443092328292010-06-10T10:33:47.952-04:002010-06-10T10:33:47.952-04:00What I find interesting about the topic is how dif...What I find interesting about the topic is how difficult it is to discuss the issue with non-planners. The Erie County Planning Board idea didn't die because people didn't want it, it was because those that did want it couldn't make it worth talking about on the 5 o'clock news, in the bars, and in people's living rooms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-14847512857465985902010-04-22T01:15:58.443-04:002010-04-22T01:15:58.443-04:00@Evan Lowenstein: Many thanks for the link to the ...@Evan Lowenstein: Many thanks for the link to the Brookings study. I hadn't seen those numbers yet. They're eye-opening to be sure -- but not surprising, given the other statistics. It certainly adds to the already considerable weight of evidence.Joe the Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11577251046288232934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-83574801159207008542010-04-22T00:08:43.833-04:002010-04-22T00:08:43.833-04:00No one's talking about forcing people to do an...No one's talking about forcing people to do anything. Our region, like virtually every other, provides many choices in lifestyle. I'm simply arguing against myopic, self-destructive planning policy -- and I assert that the costs of people's behavior should reflect the true cost.Joe the Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11577251046288232934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-43489123503370952712010-03-15T13:39:41.348-04:002010-03-15T13:39:41.348-04:00But the region DID shrink. Erie County has tried s...But the region DID shrink. Erie County has tried sprawl. Erie County failed. Case closed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-39379143395494364022010-03-15T10:21:20.053-04:002010-03-15T10:21:20.053-04:00Any regional plan has to deal with two big hurdles...Any regional plan has to deal with two big hurdles - proportional voting/control and tax redistribution. The city/urban areas are poor but populous. Any regional govt woud give them a larger say in where and how regional resources are allocated, resources tyhat they by and large are taking from the suburbs. The suburbs, the evil "sprawlers" are the income that drives the region. Had the region not been able to grow to accomodate demands for new types of living and industry, the region would have shrunk. Regionalism assumes that by preventing housing/industry choice you can force people to live the way their grandparents lived, and work in old mutli-story factories the way they did. Not going to happen. They will simply move to another region that gives them the housing/job choices they want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-6359909647066728232010-03-14T18:14:58.859-04:002010-03-14T18:14:58.859-04:00Thank you for this excellent discussion of sprawl ...Thank you for this excellent discussion of sprawl and regionalism in Western New York. The League of Women Voters of Buffalo/Niagara has been trying to raise awareness of this situation ever since we launched our Education Campaign on Urban Sprawl in 2000. We took our PowerPoint presentation to hundreds of residents, and then we published "At Taxpayers' Expense: How Government Policies Encourage Sprawl in Erie and Niagara Counties" in 2004, revised in 2006 (in which we cited the shocking statistics on building permits vs. new households mentioned above by Evan). Please see http://lwvbn.org/lwvbnactivities/sprawl/sprawl.html to view the presentation and to read our publication. For the last few years we've worked with Maria Whyte and a group of community organizations she assembled to establish an Erie County Planning Board, only to have that shot down by a veto by the County Executive. It is discouraging that there has been so little progress in spite of these efforts. I'd like to hear from Joe the Planner about what he thinks the next concrete steps in our struggle should be.<br /><br />Anne Huberman<br />Cochair, Local Government Committee<br />League of Women Voters of Buffalo/NiagaraAnne Hubermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-87768139764612238682010-03-14T15:47:24.363-04:002010-03-14T15:47:24.363-04:00Hi from Rochester! Thanks for this important piece...Hi from Rochester! Thanks for this important piece and for your work overall. I may have missed this in my scan of this post, but are you familiar with this Brookings study: <br /><br />Vacating the City: An Analysis of New Homes vs. Household Growth<br />http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2003/12metropolitanpolicy_bier.aspx<br /><br />The Buffalo-Niagara Region is the gold medal winner, head and shoulders above the rest of the 75 metros studied, in this important measure of sprawl: comparing the number of new households in a region to the number of new housing units built. <br /><br />To me, this is a very important report, because in regions like Rochester and Buffalo, where there is flat or negative regional population growth, homebuilders say that despite these population trends, they need to keep building because the change in demographics mean more households, and more demand for housing, even in places where population is overall flat or negative. Yet this study debunks that premise-- in Rochester and Buffalo, the number of new housing units being built STILL exceeds even new HOUSEHOLD formation by 31% and an astonishing 250%, respectively!!! <br /><br />Evan Lowenstein<br />Green Village Consulting<br />Rochester<br />www.greenvillage.usEvan Lowensteinhttp://www.greenvillage.usnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-38395497943027619862010-03-12T00:01:26.042-05:002010-03-12T00:01:26.042-05:00Nice editorial but you're going to need much m...Nice editorial but you're going to need much more than suppositions and incomplete census data to make the kind of locktight case for ending the practices that result in sprawl. And in the end you will be dealing with race. no discussion of this topic is complete without a thorough review of race relations that are historically prime drivers of outward sprawl. That is the elephant in the room in the regionalism discussion as well. Overall, it's good to see any examination of this topic in a city that needs to have this discussion so thank you for this presentation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-31669308105531391892010-03-11T23:29:00.799-05:002010-03-11T23:29:00.799-05:00Many thanks.
Yes; some people try to complicate ...Many thanks. <br /><br />Yes; some people try to complicate what amounts to a pretty simple, straightforward message. But it's quite predictable, as I discussed in the second paragraph. <br /><br />Besides, a little controversy is necessary to shake people out of their comfort zones!Joe the Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11577251046288232934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-35103285013290965232010-03-11T20:56:15.661-05:002010-03-11T20:56:15.661-05:00Very nice piece -too bad it is so far over the hea...Very nice piece -too bad it is so far over the head of so many.STEELhttp://www.buffbuildings.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-20392709620491216022010-03-11T16:36:52.420-05:002010-03-11T16:36:52.420-05:00@Betty: Very true. Creation of the library system ...@Betty: Very true. Creation of the library system was an excellent first step, but happened so long ago it is probably beyond the horizon of cultural and political memory. But it is a good model and one of the precedents we can stand on. <br /><br />Now all we need is a vision, leadership, a reasonable consensus, and sense of urgency!Joe the Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11577251046288232934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-23096186998724447152010-03-09T17:55:09.410-05:002010-03-09T17:55:09.410-05:00Well-deserved recognition of the library system as...Well-deserved recognition of the library system as a model for other service consolidations. Before the BECPL system, there was the Buffalo Public Library, the Grosvenor Library, and an increasing number of unaffiliated town/suburban libraries.<br /><br />It took a lot of work and special legislation but all were brought under one roof. In the 1950s. We did it then, we can do it now.Betty Barcodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614223500937270009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32091884.post-63308062424470677312010-03-09T08:23:18.293-05:002010-03-09T08:23:18.293-05:00Good to have you back!Good to have you back!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com